Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

This page provides a forum for editors to suggest items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page, as well as the forum for discussion of candidates. This is not the page to report errors in the ITN section on the Main Page—please go to the appropriate section at WP:ERRORS. Archives of past nominations can be found here.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. Under each daily section header below is the transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day (with a light green header). Each day's portal page is followed by a subsection for suggestions and discussion.

A blurb is a one sentence summary of the news story. An alternate suggestion for the blurb is called an altblurb, and any more suggestions get labelled alt1, alt2, etc. A blurb needs at least one target article, highlighted in bold; reviewers check the quality of that article and whether it is updated, and whether reliable sources demonstrate the significance of the event. Other articles can also be linked. The Ongoing line is for regularly updated articles which cover events that remain in the news over a longer period of time. RD stands for the "recent deaths" line, and can include any living thing whose death was recently announced. In some cases, recent deaths may need additional explanation as provided by a blurb; this is decided by consensus.

Cody Fajardo In Canadian football, the Montreal Alouettes defeat the Winnipeg Blue Bombers to win the Grey Cup (MVP Cody Fajardo pictured). Javier Milei is elected president of Argentina. The Cricket World Cup concludes with Australia defeating India in the final. Joseph Boakai is elected President of Liberia in the runoff, defeating incumbent president George Weah. Ongoing: Israel–Hamas war Myanmar civil war Russian invasion of Ukraine timeline War in Sudan Recent deaths: Harald Hasselbach S. Venkitaramanan Eddie Linden Annabel Giles Colette Maze Willie Hernández view — page history — related changes — edit

How to nominate an item In order to suggest a candidate: Update an article to be linked to from the blurb to include the recent developments, or find an article that has already been updated. Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates. These are automatically generated (at midnight UTC) by a bot; creating them manually breaks this process. Nominate the blurb for ITN inclusion under the "Suggestions" subheading for the date, emboldening the link in the blurb to the updated article. Use a level 4 header (====) when doing so. Preferably use the template {{ITN candidate}} to nominate the article related to the event in the news. Make sure that you include a reference from a verifiable, reliable secondary source. Press releases are not acceptable. The suggested blurb should be written in simple present tense. Adding an explanation why the event should be posted greatly increases the odds of posting. Please consider alerting editors to the nomination by adding the template {{ITN note}} to the corresponding article's talk page. There are criteria which guide the decision on whether or not to put a particular item on In the news, based largely on the extensiveness of the updated content and the perceived significance of the recent developments. These are listed at WP:ITN. Submissions that do not follow the guidelines at Wikipedia:In the news will not be placed onto the live template. Headers Items that have been posted or pulled from the main page are generally marked with (Posted) or (Pulled) in the item's subject so it is clear they are no longer active. Items can also be marked as (Ready) when the article is both updated and there seems to be a consensus to post. The posting admin, however, should always judge the update and the consensus to post themselves. If you find an entry that you don't feel is ready to post is marked (Ready), you should remove the mark in the header. Voicing an opinion on an item Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated. Please do... Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. Maybe the previous reviewer has missed a problem, or an identified problem has now been fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes may also help administrators identify items that are ready for promotion to the ITN template on MainPage. Point out problematic areas in the nominated article and, if appropriate, suggest how to fix them. If you know exactly what to do, by all means, go ahead and fix it as you see fit. Please do not... Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are usually not helpful. Instead, explain the reasons why you think the item meets or does not meet the ITN inclusion criteria so a consensus can be reached. Oppose an item solely because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is generally unproductive. Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). Conflicts of interest are not handled at ITN. Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s). Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. The criteria can be discussed at the relevant talk page. Use the discussion section of an item as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome of a nomination and are potentially disruptive. Suggesting updates A posted ITNC item that needs correcting can be addressed in two ways: Simple updates, such as updated death tolls in a disaster, linking issues, spelling or grammar corrections, or otherwise anything that does not change the intent of the blurb should be discussed at WP:ERRORS in the ITN section. More complex updates that involve a major change in the blurb's intent should be discussed as part of the current ITNC nomination.

November 27

Portal:Current events/2023 November 27
November 27, 2023 (2023-11-27) (Monday)

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November 26

Portal:Current events/2023 November 26

November 26, 2023 (2023-11-26) (Sunday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2023 Israel–Hamas war 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis 2023 Israel–Hamas ceasefire Hamas releases three Thai migrant workers and 14 Israeli hostages, while Israel releases 39 Palestinian prisoners. (The Times of Israel) Houthi involvement in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, 2023 attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria Houthi forces fire two ballistic missiles at the USS Mason, with both missiles landing short of the ship in the Gulf of Aden. (Fox News) Armed assailants seize and later release a tanker linked to Israeli billionaire Eyal Ofer, with 22 crew members on board, off the coast of Yemen. The United States Navy captures the attackers. (Reuters) (AP) Eight Palestinians are killed and at least six others are injured in Israeli raids in the West Bank. (Al Jazeera) The Palestine Red Crescent Society says that a Palestinian farmer was killed and another was injured when they were targeted by Israeli forces in the Maghazi refugee camp in Gaza. (Reuters) Hamas confirms the deaths of several senior commanders including Ahmed Ghandour, the commander of its Northern Gaza brigade, and Ayman Siam, the head of its rocket firing array. The Israel Defense Forces had previously said it had targeted Ghandour and Siam, but did not confirm that they had been killed. (The Times of Israel) Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu becomes the first Israeli head of government to enter the Gaza Strip in two decades, after visiting Israel Defense Forces troops stationed there. (The Jerusalem Post) 2023 Freetown attacks Sierra Leone declares a national curfew following an attack by militants on barracks in Freetown. The militants later break into Freetown Central Prison, setting some inmates free. (Reuters) Arts and culture 2023 Booker Prize Irish writer Paul Lynch wins the Booker Prize for his novel Prophet Song. (AFP via RFI) Disasters and accidents The cargo ship Raptor sinks off the Greek island of Lesbos with 14 crew members on board. The coast guard rescues one person and recovers the body of one of the other crew members. (AFP via France 24) International relations Germany–Mali relations German Catholic priest Hans-Joachim Lohre, who disappeared in Bamako, Mali, in November 2022 and was presumed kidnapped, is released and returns to Germany. (AFP via The News) China–Malaysia relations, India–Malaysia relations Malaysian Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim announces at a People's Justice Party congress that citizens of China and India will have visa-free travel from December 1, allowing stays of up to 30 days in a bid to boost tourism. (Reuters) Law and crime Corruption in Kuwait Kuwait's highest court sentences former defense and interior minister Khaled Al Jarrah Al Sabah to seven years in prison for mishandling military funds while former Prime Minister Jaber Al-Mubarak Al-Hamad Al-Sabah, who faced similar charges, is only ordered by the court to return the funds that he mismanaged. (Reuters via Al Arabiya) Violent incidents in reaction to the 2023 Israel–Hamas war Anti-Palestinianism during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war Three students of Palestinian ethnicity are shot and injured by an unknown attacker in Burlington, Vermont, United States, in what police are investigating as a possible hate crime. (Time) Three people are killed and two others are critically injured in a shooting in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, according to the Winnipeg Police Service. (UPI)

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RD: Geordie Walker

Article: Geordie Walker (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NME
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Black Kite (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

• Guitarist with Killing Joke and other bands. Article is in decent shape. Black Kite (talk) 20:34, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oh no, not Geordie. 😔 Support RD. Kurtis ^(talk) 20:41, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Yeah, I know. Gutted. Black Kite (talk) 20:53, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support RD — Article is in proper shape. RIP Geordie Aria1561 (talk) 06:31, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Freetown attacks

Article: 2023 Freetown attacks (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Sierra Leone declares a nationwide curfew after attacks on military facilities in Freetown. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Sierra Leone's capital Freetown, militants attack barracks and a prison.
News source(s): Reuters, The Guardian, France 24
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Chaotic Enby (talk · give credit)
• Created by X2023X (talk · give credit)

Still a Start-class article, hoping to bring a bit of attention to help bring it up to ITN quality. Very recent development, possible attempted coup, identity of the group responsible still unknown. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 18:20, 26 November 2023 (UTC) 토토사이트

• Oppose for now, due to the lack of info about it. We don't know who the attackers are, how many of them there are, how many prisoners they released, nor how many casualties there are. X2023X (talk) 20:17, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Wait due to lack of info and stub state of article. The Kip 20:47, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Wait until it becomes clearer what happened. —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 21:55, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Support on notability, but wait for more information becomes known. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 07:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

2023 MotoGP World Championship

Article: 2023 MotoGP World Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In motorcycle racing, Francesco Bagnaia wins the MotoGP World Championship. (Post)
News source(s): Autosport
Credits:

• Nominated by Unnamelessness (talk · give credit)
• Created by 180.251.150.230 (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Acticle waiting for updates. Unnamelessness (talk) 14:46, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support. Article quality looks fine. DarkSide830 (talk) 01:30, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Karachi mall fire

Article: 2023 Karachi mall fire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 11 people have been killed and 35 injured in a fire at a shopping mall in Karachi, Pakistan. (Post)
News source(s): Guardian, Reuters, NY Times, AP News, Al Jazeera, FOX News, ABC
Credits:

• Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk · give credit)

Ainty Painty (talk) 05:18, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. The article does not provide sufficient information. Maxxies (talk) 08:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose on both notability and quality, minor disaster and the article isn't up to shape. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 13:17, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose At this point, seems like an unfortunate fire, but details are too thin to know if there are other major issues. --Masem (t) 15:10, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Chaotic Enby. Article’s a stub and disaster seems fairly small-scale/non-notable. The Kip 19:19, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose on notability --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 05:17, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: Terry Venables

Article: Terry Venables (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Govvy (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

• Support One of English football's great managers. Meets all requirements. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 13:07, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support Unsourced sections have (to my knowledge) all been sorted, with citations added where requested. Should be all good now. CommissarDoggo (talk) 23:25, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Entire unsourced sections (QPR, Australia, Palace, Middlesbrough) and a number of other citations needed. Black Kite (talk) 13:10, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Not ready - Seven unresolved tags at the moment. —M3ATH (Moazfargal · Talk) 14:07, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

“Meets all requirements” The entirely unsourced sections don’t bother you? 83.80.192.174 (talk) 18:46, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

2023 Booker Prize

Article: 2023 Booker Prize (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The novel Prophet Song by Paul Lynch wins the 2023 Booker Prize. (Post)
News source(s): [1], [2]. [3]
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Golan1911 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

• I believe it's 2023 Booker Prize that is ITN/R, not the article of the book itself. Neither is ready for the main page. Both are stubs. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:57, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

We really should have one of either the author or the book as a bold link. The update to the Booker Prize list is a trivial matter, so we should see a quality article on either or both the author or book. Here, I see all but a couple of awards that Lynch would need to be cited to be ready, and the book article just needs some more expansion (for example, Lynch's explanation of the book from here or perhaps from here. There's clearly more sourcing available to expand the book a notch more. Masem (t) 01:03, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Can we add primary sources, ie. interviews with Paul Lynch? Golan1911 (talk) 01:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Lynch and the book are both independently notable via secondary sources, so adding primary source interviews to add more information is completely fine. Primary sources are not something to avoid, you just don't want an article based only on primary sources. Masem (t) 03:58, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

The Wikipedia page/article for the book was expanded upon. Golan1911 (talk) 03:09, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

November 25

Portal:Current events/2023 November 25

November 25, 2023 (2023-11-25) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2023 Israel–Hamas war 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis 2023 Israel–Hamas ceasefire On day 2 of the ceasefire, Hamas releases 13 Israeli hostages and 4 Thai migrant workers, while Israel releases 39 Palestinian prisoners.(The Guardian) The Israeli government will summon the Belgian and Spanish ambassadors following their criticism of Israel for the suffering of Palestinian civilians under Israeli military operations in the Gaza Strip by Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo and Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez. (AP) Russian invasion of Ukraine Russia launches 75 drones against Ukraine from two directions, Primorsko-Akhtarsk and the Kursk region. In response, Ukraine launches 20 drones against Russia, including the capital, Moscow. (CNN) (Reuters) (AP) Syrian civil war Syrian military shelling in rebel-held Qoqfin, Idlib Governorate, kills ten people, including seven children. (AP via ABC News) Disasters and accidents 2023 Karachi mall fire Eleven people are killed and 35 others are injured by a fire at a shopping mall in Karachi, Pakistan. (AFP via The Guardian) Five climbers are killed and four others are injured by an avalanche in the Zagros Mountains in Lorestan, Iran. (AP) Four people are killed and 60 others are injured in a stampede at a music festival in Kochi, Kerala, India. (AP) Health and environment 2022–2023 mpox outbreak, Mpox in the Democratic Republic of the Congo The World Health Organization records the highest annual count of mpox cases in the Democratic Republic of Congo, with 12,569 cases and 581 deaths reported until November 2023. (AFP via The Straits Times) Politics and elections 2023 Malagasy presidential election Madagascar opposition presidential candidate Siteny Randrianasoloniaiko appeals to the Supreme Court to annul the election results, claiming electoral fraud. (Al Jazeera) Sports 2023 U Sports football season 58th Vanier Cup In Canadian football, the Montreal Carabins defeat the UBC Thunderbirds 16–9 to win their second national university football championship. (CBC News)

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RD: Marty Krofft

Article: Sid and Marty Krofft (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): MSN, Variety{
Credits:

• Nominated by CoatCheck (talk · give credit)
• Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

The World of Sid and Marty Krofft trippy children's program producers. He and his brother Sid were a major part of why the 70s was the best decade to be a kid. CoatCheck (talk) 06:51, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• The prose has a handful of {cn} tags. The Works and Awards sections are largely unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 08:32, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: Russell Norman (restaurateur)

Article: Russell Norman (restaurateur) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Abishe (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prominent restaurateur in Britain. Abishe (talk) 04:27, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

November 24

Portal:Current events/2023 November 24

November 24, 2023 (2023-11-24) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2023 Israel–Hamas war 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis 2023 Israel–Hamas ceasefire An agreement to pause fighting in the Gaza Strip for four days enters into effect at 7am. (Al Jazeera) On the first day of the ceasefire Hamas releases 13 Israeli hostages, some of whom are dual citizens, while Israel releases 39 Palestinian prisoners as part of the ceasefire agreement. (CNN) (Times of Israel) Hamas releases one Filipino and 10 Thai hostages as part of a separate deal with the Thai government which was brokered by Iran. (Time) (Times of Israel) International relations Somalia is admitted as the 8th member of the East African Community. (BBC News) Law and crime Mexican drug war The security chief for El Chapo's Sinaloa Cartel Nestor Isidro Pérez Salas, also known as "El Nini", is arrested in Culiacán, Sinaloa, Mexico. The United States Drug Enforcement Administration had a $3 million bounty for El Nini's arrest. (CBS News) Bangladeshi police intercept and detain 58 Rohingya refugees attempting to travel to Indonesia by boat, citing risks of human trafficking. (AFP via CNA) Ecuadorian President Daniel Noboa repeals the country's ten-year policy permitting possession of small drug quantities in an effort to curb "micro-trafficking". (AFP via ABS-CBN News) The Supreme Court of Montenegro approves the extradition of South Korean cryptocurrency entrepreneur Do Kwon, as requested by South Korea and the United States, following the collapse of Kwon's company Terraform Labs. (Reuters) Politics and elections Nepalese police arrest 74 pro-monarchy protesters and supporters of businessman Durga Prasai. (The Kathmandu Post) (Crisis 24) Science and technology Astronomers at the Telescope Array Project in Utah, United States, observe the second largest cosmic ray ever detected, the so-called Amaterasu particle, with an energy of 244 EeV. (Cosmos Magazine)

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Somalia joins the East African Community

Article: East African Community (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Somalia is admitted as the eighth member of the East African Community. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Somalia joins the East African Community as its eighth member.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Chaotic Enby (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Chipmunkdavis (talk · give credit) and ItzSyther (talk · give credit)

Major geopolitical development in East Africa, with the East African Community admitting Somalia after 11 years of negotiations. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 09:31, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Please consider crediting (co-crediting?) ItzSyther if possible, who noted the need for updates on the talkpage before I edited the page. CMD (talk) 09:38, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Done, thanks for noting! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 09:39, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support I think this is ITN-worthy as this is a pretty significant change to the political landscape of East Africa. LynxesDesmond (talk) 13:40, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Weak Support - I do think this can potentially be notable enough to warrant a blurb, but only just. With the ongoing project of the East African Federation I think this could have quite a significant effect (though at risk of POV I would mention that it's very unlikely Somalia will be integrated into this IMO due to how unstable the state is, same as South Sudan or DRCongo) PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:16, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose only on the basis of the two orange tags in the article. These must be resolved first, but this is appropriate for posting otherwise. --Masem (t) 15:31, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support on notability but the article is not ready per Masem. Moazfargal (talk) 15:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Support per above as in Moazfargal Lukt64 (talk) 21:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality per the aforementioned orange banners. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 21:47, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Support. Good work, CMD. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 02:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose The BBC report says that "To be admitted into the EAC, new countries are supposed to show that they adhere to the principles of good governance ... Last year, Somalia was ranked the most corrupt country in the world by Transparency International." But the EAC article says little about this discrepancy. And the EAC article appears to need some significant fact-checking as the things it does say include "Tanzania has more land than all the other EAC nations combined ..." – a claim which seems about 15 years out-of-date. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support on notability but quality must be improved. Andrew says there is "a claim 15 years out of date". JM (talk) 00:31, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Comment I have boldly added more information to the two tagged sections and removed the tags. The outdated information noted relates to the early integration period (pre-expansion), I added a bit on the end of that enthusiasm before expansion began. I've also removed a bunch of cruft that had little to do with the topic. A general outdatedness in some areas may remain (not sure how this interacts with ITN requirements), although it's worth noting that in some cases issues simply stalled and continue to stall forever. CMD (talk) 02:39, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  Congratulations, thanks a lot! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 13:18, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose Relatively unknown organisation without much influence.

Do we always post ascensions of countries to some organisations, even not famous?

I don't think so. Kirill C1 (talk) 15:07, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

It has a ton of influence on East Africa. It's famous enough. Aaron Liu (talk) 16:11, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

It is the equivalent of the European Union for the African states, so definitely significant that a new country is introduced. Just because its not in the news as much as the EU doesn't make it less significant. Masem (t) 16:54, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

The European Union is a massive confederation of global powers, the EAC is little more than a small regional forum PrecariousWorlds (talk) 17:24, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

It's among the most influential African organizations (with the African Union), with a much higher level of integration between members and prospects for federalization (although the last three members complicate that point). ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 17:37, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• the core group of the EAC makes some sense but Somalia's accession seems more like annexation of a failed state than a marriage of equals. See Eurasia Review for an eye-opening critique. A key issue is that Somalia is not part of the Swahili language region. Our article does not explain this. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:18, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  In term of personal opinions, I'd say everything past the first 5 members was an absolute mess that only prevented the "core" EAC from progressing towards a federation. In terms of Wikivoice, I don't think that's what belongs in the article (also the link doesn't work for me, unfortunately). ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 19:42, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Wikipedia is supposed to summarise secondary sources with some analysis, rather than just presenting PR platitudes as if they are a sure thing. Note that the EAC has collapsed completely before and so the success of its plans can't be taken for granted. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:48, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  Of course no future plan should be taken for granted (WP:CRYSTAL after all) but using the argument of "it collapsed before" to support this point is in the range of being OR ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 00:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support on notability, oppose on quality. Article needs a lot of work. The Kip 19:20, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  What should be improved most urgently? I see that the last two sections are basically just tables, but the rest appears pretty clean? Thanks! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 21:34, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: Ross McDonnell

Article: Ross McDonnell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Irish Times
Credits:

• Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Irish filmmaker. Article was recently created and needs work. He was missing for two weeks before parts of his remains were discovered on a beach in Queens, NY. Thriley (talk) 14:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Stub. Grimes2 (talk) 16:47, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, the article is too short. Suonii180 (talk) 16:48, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: Ron Hodges

Article: Ron Hodges (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://apnews.com/article/ron-hodges-dies-obituary-mets-fbf289ed74be7079624f16ac20f63451
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

• Oppose Article is currently an under-cited stub. The Kip 19:42, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

November 23

Portal:Current events/2023 November 23

November 23, 2023 (2023-11-23) (Thursday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2023 Israel–Hamas war Al-Shifa Hospital siege The Israel Defense Forces detain Mohammad abu Salmiya, the director of the Al-Shifa Hospital, and several doctors working under him, after a convoy belonging to the World Health Organization was stopped by Israeli soldiers. Israel accuses the director and the doctors of having sheltered Hamas fighters in the hospital. (The Guardian) Houthi involvement in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war CENTCOM reports that the USS Thomas Hudner has shot down "multiple" Israel-bound attack drones launched from Houthi-controlled Yemen over the Red Sea. No injuries or damage are reported. (The Hill) Russian invasion of Ukraine Southern Ukraine campaign A Russian cluster munition strike in Chornobaivka, Kherson, kills at least three civilians. Five people are also injured by Russian artillery shelling with more than 60 residential buildings reportedly damaged. (AP via ABC News) Business and economy Modern immigration to the United Kingdom The Office for National Statistics reports that net migration to the United Kingdom reached a record of 745,000 in 2022, with the vast majority of arrivals being from non-EU countries. (Sky News) Health and environment 2023 Chinese pneumonia outbreak The World Health Organization (WHO) reports that Chinese authorities have not detected any unusual or new pathogens in the recent increase of respiratory diseases among children in northern China. The WHO continues to monitor the situation. (AFP via NDTV) International relations Japan–South Korea relations The High Court of Seoul, South Korea, orders Japan to pay compensation of ₩200 million (around ¥22 million or US$154,000) to 16 comfort women, overturning a previous ruling that denied the women's claims due to sovereign immunity. (AFP via Manila Bulletin) North Korea–South Korea relations North Korea terminates its 2018 agreement with South Korea, citing escalations in military provocations as well as plans to deploy military forces along the Military Demarcation Line. (AFP via Le Monde) Law and crime 2023 Dublin riot Rioting occurs in Dublin, Ireland, following a mass stabbing outside a school which injured a woman and three children. Garda Commissioner Drew Harris blames "far-right hooligans" for the unrest. (AP) Chad's junta parliament approves an amnesty law, terminating prosecutions and convictions related to the 2022 anti-government protest deaths. (AFP via Hindustan Times) Politics and elections 2023 Israel–Hamas war protests Pro-Palestine protesters disrupt the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade in New York City, United States, minutes after the start of the parade. The parade resumes after the protesters are taken into custody. (ABC News) Cubans hold a pro-Palestine protest at the Embassy of the United States in Havana, Cuba. (Reuters)

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RD: Fathima Beevi

Article: Fathima Beevi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

• Nominated by Ktin (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian jurist. First woman judge of the Supreme Court. Ktin (talk) 22:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: Charles Peters

Article: Charles Peters (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

• Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 14:21, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

• Needs ref improvement currently. - Indefensible (talk) 21:05, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality, article includes unsourced information. Suonii180 (talk) 23:26, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Harald Hasselbach

Article: Harald Hasselbach (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  2-time Super Bowl champion and Grey Cup champion has died. Notable enough to have his name on the ticker (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

• Nominated by TonyTheTiger (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Blurb not really necessary, but eligible for ticker.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:29, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

• • To be clear, I am only nominating for the RD ticker.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:20, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

    I've struck the blurb, but didn't outright delete it as people have already commented.—Bagumba (talk) 04:17, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

• Weak Support for RD Article is adequate for RD, if barely. Oppose blurb A prominent athlete but not on a level justifying a blurb and article quality is also not up to scratch for a blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:53, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose blurb, notable life, non-notable death. Also not a household name for a non-American/Canadian like me. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 23:06, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality, oppose blurb on notability. The article should be expanded, I find it too short for someone who, apparently, was so notable in his field. But he is far from having a blurb, from what Chatoic says. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:20, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality: barely more than a stub. Moscow Mule (talk) 00:46, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Strong oppose blurb on notability, oppose RD on quality support RD. This person is not notable for dying and isn't a huge figure, thus definitely not blurb-worthy. This article is a stub, this doesn't seem to be up to snuff for RD. This article has been expanded past a stub and is up to snuff. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 02:49, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• When in nominated this it was 1190 characters. It is now 1938.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:55, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Is the RD character minimum the same as the DYK minimum of 1500?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:13, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  No, but a stub won’t get posted. Stephen 11:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  Is the current 2545 character version considered a stub?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:18, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose RD on quality, oppose blurb on notability per all above. Article's 6 paragraphs (if you count two sentences as a paragraph). qw3rty 13:33, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• We've got no consensus for a blurb - no more voting for that as that is just going to bring down the RD nomination. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:39, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support. Six decent-sized paragraphs and over 2,500 bytes of prose is definitely above stub class and enough to post – a currently featured item (Claude Kahn) is actually shorter than this (if you don't count a list of works). BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:42, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
  • @Chaotic Enby, Alsoriano97, Moscow Mule, Queen of Hearts, and Iamstillqw3rty: BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

    Thanks Beanie. Changing to support _-_Alsor (talk) 22:35, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

    Support RD! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 10:07, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article is adequate enough for RD, if only barely. The Kip 19:43, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose The claims of quality do not seem well founded. For example, one of the sources is a fantasy site and the link doesn't work for me. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:58, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  If it's just the one, tag it, but that alone doesn't seem like a showstopper, unless there are more. —Bagumba (talk) 14:46, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  Agreed. Nonetheless, I've replaced the dead link with another source that mentions the information. Tails Wx 16:52, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  The replacement citation does not fully support the existing sentence. This is not quality; it's fudging. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:11, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  Which part of the sentence isn't supported? Aaron Liu (talk) 22:31, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  I misread the source, originally the part to have been a part of a winning team wasn't supported. I did modify the sentence thereafter per the ESPN reference, sorry about the confusion. Tails Wx 00:25, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  I mean, if you win a team sport, you were part of the winning team, but sure, this reads better. Aaron Liu (talk) 03:28, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  @Andrew Davidson This is not quality; it's fudging: Gentle reminder to assume good faith. Otherwise, be prepared to show diffs that an individual's behavior is habitually and intentionally deceiving. Thanks. —Bagumba (talk) 04:08, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support. Article has been expanded sufficiently past stub-class and is well-sourced. Good to go for ITN posting. Tails Wx 16:52, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• If any other editor wants to pitch in to qualify this for a WP:DYK co-nom, we still have 4 days to get this to 3100 characters. I don't see that much more that needs to be added, but welcome help in that regard.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:56, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 22:26, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Dublin riot

Article: 2023 Dublin riot (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Dublin, a riot occurs after a woman and three children were stabbed outside a school. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Protesters riot in Dublin after a woman and three children were stabbed outside a school.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Dublin, a mass stabbing is followed by a riot.
News source(s): RTE News, Irish News, Irish Independent, BBC News, New York Times, CNN, ABC (Australia), ABC (US), Al Jazeera
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Sideswipe9th (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Sawyer-mcdonell (talk · give credit), Queen of Hearts (talk · give credit), Geni (talk · give credit) and Edl-irishboy (talk · give credit)

• Pretty widely reported in Irish and international news sources. This level of rioting is fairly uncommon in Dublin, and the Garda Commissioner has said that the protestors were "driven by far-right ideology". I could use some assistance with the blurbs, as I'm not an ITN regular and I'm not sure what the style is here. We expect there will be more to add tomorrow afternoon, particularly surrounding the actions of a Brazilian Deliveroo driver who reportedly intervened in the stabbings, we're just waiting on stronger sourcing for that. Sideswipe9th (talk) 02:20, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Anyone know what the last time a riot was posted was? I fully doubt this is greater than that, even if it's getting a lot of press right now. Mebigrouxboy (talk) 02:46, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  Garda sources told the Irish Times that level of violence and criminal damaged "far eclipsed" the 2006 Dublin riots and was "unprecedented in the modern era in Dublin". Otherwise the most recent riot that I know of was 2021 Dublin riots. Unless I've misunderstood the question, and you're referring to the last time a riot was posted on ITN? Sideswipe9th (talk) 02:52, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, I was referring to all demonstrations in ITN. - Mebigrouxboy (talk) 02:59, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  Looking through the archives I've found a June 2023 Honduran prison riot. It also looks like the 2021 Northern Ireland riots were added on 8 April 2021, but I can't find a discussion for that one. Sideswipe9th (talk) 03:08, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  FWIW, the Honduran one was between 2 well-known gangs and killed 46 and the NI one only ran on its tenth day. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 06:00, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose An unrest of about 200 ppl (based on our article) is very small in the larger scope of things, particularly in response to a domestic, non-terrorism related crime, is not really notable in the larger scale of things, at this point. If the unrest continues for several days, that might be something. --Masem (t) 03:18, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Procedural oppose. Article is now at RM. RM has been closed. I'll give this a proper review later. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 06:51, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  I don't think that is much important as it's only changing "unrest" to "riot". Aaron Liu (talk) 14:33, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  Support alt. This was a pretty major event in Ireland; they don't have riots like this often. Also per Nableezy. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 01:34, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose riots are not ITNR per se, wherever they occur. They are usual and ordinary. In this case, I don't see that they have a remarkable impact even if the motive is execrable. _-_Alsor (talk) 08:55, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  This isn't usual and ordinary. Secretlondon (talk) 14:24, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose article fails to explain why this particular stabbing incident led to riots. Though careful to mention the national origin of the person who helped stop the attacker, and quick to blame "right wing ideology" it suspiciously doesn't state the national origin of the attacker despite the attacker being a naturalized citizen. This is likely a key detail as to why the stabbings resulted in riots and is missing from the article. --142.116.102.110 (talk) 12:21, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  The media is doing the same. Secretlondon (talk) 14:22, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Strong Support - Front page news, high quality article, major event. This is the quintessential ITN blurb PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Strong support altblurb: A lot more out of the ordinary than elections or sports. Aaron Liu (talk) 14:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

^^ PrecariousWorlds (talk) 15:39, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Support: Article is of decent quality and event is highly covered in the news. Moazfargal (talk) 15:27, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Support: Seeing as how this is the biggest riot Ireland has seen in modern times (besides the 2006 Dublin riot), I think that this deserves a spot LynxesDesmond (talk) 18:57, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

But it was only 200 people, which is quite small compared to other protests or riots like those in Hong Kong, India, or the US. Masem (t) 19:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

But that's still larger than what we currently have in the ITN column. Plus Ireland has less people than any of the places you listed, so it logically follows that the rioter count would be smaller. Aaron Liu (talk) 19:20, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

We don't force things into ITN because other blurbs are stale or lacking. And yes, with Ireland being a small country, a riot that involves a larger proportion of their population is still small scale. Masem (t) 21:11, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Since this event does have a bigger impact than every current item, I don't see why we shouldn't "force" it in. Aaron Liu (talk) 21:40, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

We do not force news to happen, simply to progress stale blurbs out of the box. That's been discussed multiple times on the talk page before and rejected. Masem (t) 21:48, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

It's not forcing news to happen, it already is news. Aaron Liu (talk) 22:08, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

This is like saying "There's only 24 footballers in the Grey Cup Finale, so we shouldn't post it". It's the international reaction and significance that makes this notable. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:42, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Small-scale incident that didn't last very long. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:23, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  It lasted longer than the Grey Cup. Aaron Liu (talk) 19:24, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  C'mon Aaron, you know that argument makes no sense. Obviously sports events rarely last as long as riots, but duration and volume or persons in a riot tends to have a big impact on the incident's effect. And you asked a question below about "damage" that I will answer. That answer is "no". A small-scale tropical storm can do that damage and might actually kill people. No one died, and while I can't say that this is a "small" incident for anyone effected, the effects seem fairly contained and the impacts of this event going forward are indeterminate. DarkSide830 (talk) 02:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  The point is that sports events rarely have as much impact as better news. If there was a small-scale tropical storm in this month, that would be news! If there was one during the hurricane season, it wouldn't be because there are a ton of other, similar and larger news. The same does not go for these weeks, which is why we should post this. Aaron Liu (talk) 16:17, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support major event, lots of destruction, significant as a flash point of anti-immigrant sentiment in Ireland. Many politicians are reacting strongly negatively, so this is having repurcussions in Irish politics. Although I think we should have a blurb which explains the reasons ("stabbed by an Algerian immigrant") regardless of whether the reason is valid; the entire event is being characterized as a far-right anti-immigrant protest and the blurb ignores that. JM (talk) 21:05, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  On the proposed change to the blurb, the nationality of the suspect has not officially been released by the Gardaí. Conversely there are several reliable sources (New York Times, Daily Telegraph UK, The Guardian UK) who have reported on this being misinformation that precipitated the riot. As with other details surrounding the stabbings, until the Gardaí release the information and it is published in reliable sources, we cannot report upon it. Sideswipe9th (talk) 00:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Interestingly the article now states: He was later reported to be a man in his 50s who had lived in Ireland for 20 years, had become a naturalised Irish citizen in 2014, and had been living in homeless accommodation in Dublin’s north inner city. The origin country of the attacker has not been announced by the authorities. So we could at least put immigrant for context, or, like I said below, specify that the rioters believed the attacker was a MENA immigrant. I believe it's important to clarify that this riot is not just over a stabbing, its motivated by anti-immigrant sentiment. JM (talk) 23:24, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support - front page around the world (NYT has this on its front page for example). We should let our sources determine significance, not our own personal opinions. nableezy - 22:03, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose 200 people is too small for ITN. Elisecars727 (talk) 22:49, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  The amount of people participating in a protest shouldn't be the criteria for posting, only the coverage. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:05, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Per above, a small-scale flash in the pan that could lead to further unrest, at which point we can always reintroduce. Kcmastrpc (talk) 22:53, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Question: What, exactly, do the current editors at ITN deem enough to post as news? I know there's quality and the vague principle of impact, but isn't 30+ shops, vehicles and infrastructure damaged impact enough? Aaron Liu (talk) 23:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

  Right now I believe the current standards for significance are too high. So something like this which is front page news and being talked about everywhere is being opposed as not significant enough - fine, if we had many more important things to blurb, but we don't. I've come to believe that standards for significance should be determined by volume of newsworthy events, with more news meaning higher significance standards to maintain the same influx of new blurbs. But I know some people here disagree because we've just discussed it not that long ago (I know Masem in particular strongly disagrees and considers it to be "forcing news" which I disagree with - it is news regardless). These beliefs apply here since I believe this blurb meets my current standards, considering all that I wrote above. I also believe people who say there are often too many sports blurbs should support this non-sports blurb. JM (talk) 00:48, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Yep, the current standards seem to be "either have a massive lasting importance, or be a sports event". ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 09:21, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Agreed PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:12, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose good faith nom. A brief and nasty riot in a country that, at least in recent times, is not well known for that sort of thing. But the scale and numbers are not enough for ITN. Larger disturbances occur routinely all over the world and we pay no attention to them. Long term significance is likely low to nil. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:05, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Then also nominate the larger disturbances with similarly loaded emotion. It's often said that the solution to too much sports and elections is to nominate more news, and this is indeed news. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:39, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Agree, that's what I was considering saying. JM (talk) 01:41, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Wikipedia is not a news ticker and ITN shouldn't be one either. Not everything that gets enough news coverage for an article needs to be posted at ITN. I realize that is not a popular position in some quarters, but that's where I stand. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:44, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  What should In the news be then? The stated purpose is to highlight quality articles and help news people quickly find the Wikipedia article they're looking for. Aaron Liu (talk) 13:54, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Something being In The News shouldn't be a criteria in a section called...In The News? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:07, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support as a definitely newsworthy event and front-page news in many sources. Disagree with mentioning the alleged nationality of the suspect in the blurb, although agree that context is welcome. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 09:24, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  How do you propose contextualizing anti-MENA-immigrant riots without mentioning that the cause was the rioters' belief that the attack was perpetrated by a MENA immigrant? JM (talk) 11:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Saying "anti-immigrant riots" would make the point clear enough in my opinion. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 15:05, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Promoting something to ITN means it'll stay there for a good while. I don't see why we should give publicity to a very minor piece of disorder by a couple of hundred racists that has already largely disappeared from the news. Oh, and can we give it a rest with the "but it's so much more important than sport" stuff? That's not helping. Black Kite (talk) 17:34, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  The 2023 Liberian election was barely covered and it's still up, this isn't a reason to oppose. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:42, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  It was not a "very minor piece of disorder". Central Dublin was seriously damaged and disrupted and extra riot police are still on standby in the street to suppress any recurrence, which did happen, if you follow the details in the latest version of the article. And, it has not "largely disappeared from the news". Spideog (talk) 00:14, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support. I am bewildered as to how this hasn't been featured yet. This kind of hatred has been brewing for years in Ireland and this level of civil disorder is unprecedented. Salmoonlight (talk) 21:30, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support. In the proposed blurb, I would add the word "major" ("In Dublin, a major riot occurs...") because it swelled from the original "between 100 and 200" in earlier versions of the article to 500, which is huge in Irish terms (it is a small country). This 500 is documented with citations in later versions of the article since the original proposal here in ITN. Riots are extremely rare in Ireland and are not on this scale. Spideog (talk) 23:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Doesn't matter if it is a rare event in a country, or if its proportion of those involved is larger for the given country, it was still domestic event that had an irrational domestic response that was quelled quickly. It does not compare to the type of riots or protests that we have features in contrast to those that we have rejected. Masem (t) 23:57, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  It would be interesting to watch you trying to prove convincingly that the response was "irrational" as opposed to simply your drive-by opinion. The havoc called for the expressions of horror and disgust that followed. Your attempt to minimise its significance by referring twice to "domestic" news is meaningless: the invention of the telescope by Galileo was domestic news in Italy and 9/11 in the United States was also a domestic event. The term "domestic" is a useless indicator of notability. Leaders of the United Kingdom and France reacted to it and it received widespread coverage in international media: were their responses also "irrational"? The event was highly notable in Irish terms which cannot be calibrated by misleading comparisons to countries with much more violent societies. Spideog (talk) 00:22, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  People reacted to misinformation before getting confirmation. That's irrational behavior, and actually very common across a range of issues nowadays. Masem (t) 00:24, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  People acted irrationally when they attacked the United States Federal Capitol Building, and that is still in the news three years later. Responses to the Irish riot by media and public figures internationally, not to mention the Irish public, were entirely rational. Spideog (talk) 00:38, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  I believe Masem is calling the riots irrational, not the response to the riots irrational, and that you're misinterpreting them. But I suppose only Masem knows for sure. JM (talk) 00:39, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  Even if you are right, irrational motives are not a helpful measure of newsworthiness. How many major wars and other major historical events have been ignited by irrationality? Spideog (talk) 00:52, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  Ask Masem. JM (talk) 01:01, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, those that rioted acted irrationally. I am non-plussed by the kudzu of Reaction sections that are just international leaders sending the equivalent of their condolences, without any type of actual participation (like, actually sending aid in terms of people, money, or property), a long-standing problem with event articles. The fact that none of the Reactions are anything but simple statements leads to how little impact this even had on the overall world, though I am not judging my ITN oppose based on that. Simply that a riot of even 500 people with some small-scale level of vandalism and injuries due to people acting on misinformation is not really something that we'd post. Masem (t) 00:57, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

You are inventing personal criteria for ITN inclusion out of thin air with all your talk of irrationality and dismissing international leader behaviour (no aid, no money) and dreaming these pseudo-criteria might be taken seriously.

These "yardsticks" of yours are so random and left-field you could as well dismiss any candidate for ITN because beetles were not observed during the event, "so it is not newsworthy".

Going by your most recent comment, it seems necessary to repeat the fact that "small-scale level of vandalism" is incorrect. I already corrected you on this point: it didn't take, apparently. Repeating the error won't magically make it true. Spideog (talk) 01:57, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• How could 9/11 be a domestic event? The attackers were not Americans. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 03:45, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

  Why should ITN's standard be that high? Aaron Liu (talk) 00:46, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• @Admins willing to post ITN: Is there a consensus to post this or not? BangJan1999 02:17, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• It's currently 11-8 in Support (including the Support below this), which is in the unclear range. I'm not going to post it because I commented. I'd argue that it's disappeared from the news tickers, outside Ireland, though, which could suggest that its impact is marginal. I'd also suggest that if it is posted, the far-right nature of the riot needs to be in the blurb; this wasn't ordinary people who just happened to riot. Black Kite (talk) 16:39, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

That doesn't look like consensus to me. Schwede66 18:15, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support per Nableezy.

𝕸𝖗 𝕽𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝕿𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖑𝖊 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱 ☎️ 📄 08:05, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose stale and little in the way of long term significance. Polyamorph (talk) 16:42, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  An item is not stale unless it is older than the oldest ITN blurb, which was 14 November. It's in fact newer than the newest blurb. Aaron Liu (talk) 21:41, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support Newsworthy and encyclopedic candidate, well written. ——Serial 17:07, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - doesn't seem to have lasting significance appropriate for ITN. I suggest that someone close this since I don't think consensus to post will form. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 03:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

November 22

Portal:Current events/2023 November 22

November 22, 2023 (2023-11-22) (Wednesday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2023 Israel–Hamas war 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis 2023 Israel–Hamas ceasefire The Cabinet of Israel approves a deal to pause fighting in Gaza for four days. The deal, negotiated by Egypt, Qatar, and the United States, will also see Israel release 150 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for the release of some of the hostages held by Hamas, mostly women and children. (The Times of Israel) Business and economy Sam Altman returns as CEO of American artificial intelligence company OpenAI, only days after being dismissed by the company's Board of Directors on November 17. The surprise dismissal had resulted in major pushback, with 95% of company workers saying that they would quit if Altman was not brought back as CEO. (BBC News) Disasters and accidents 2023 Rainbow Bridge explosion A car explodes near the Canada–United States border at the Rainbow Bridge in Niagara Falls, New York, United States, killing the two people inside the vehicle and injuring a border agent. The New York state government temporarily closes all border crossings between the United States and Canada in Western New York in response to the explosion. (Reuters) Health and environment 2023 Chinese pneumonia outbreak The World Health Organization requests detailed information from China regarding a surge in respiratory diseases and pneumonia clusters among children in northern China, while advising the public to adhere to preventative measures against such diseases. (AFP via TOI) International relations Finland–Russia relations Finnish Prime Minister Petteri Orpo announces that Finland will close all but the northernmost border crossing with Russia, amid an increase in asylum seekers entering Finland via Russia. (Reuters) Politics and elections 2023 Dutch general election Citizens of the Netherlands elect all 150 seats in the House of Representatives. (CNN) The far-right Party for Freedom led by Geert Wilders wins the most seats in parliament, according to exit polls. (The Guardian)

---

RD: Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie

Article: Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

• Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 03:26, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Support. (Pretty) good article; long and referenced. Some paragraphs are a bit long but that's far too picky for ITN. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (no relation) 06:55, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

• Article needs some ref improvement and copyediting in my opinion. - Indefensible (talk) 17:54, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

2023 Dutch general election

Article: 2023 Dutch general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Party for Freedom led by Geert Wilders (pictured) is the largest party in the 2023 Dutch general election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the Netherlands, the Party for Freedom, led by Geert Wilders (pictured) receives a plurality of votes in the general election.
News source(s): [4]
Credits:

• Nominated by Haris920 (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Exit polls show a pvv victory. Most votes will be counted in the next few hours. Haris920 (talk) 22:31, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Wait a bit for the official count then. Article looks alright. Aaron Liu (talk) 22:47, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Wait I just looked through the article and it seems that this round of voting is just the start as there are likely to be 16+ parties with seats and so the permutations needed to form a coalition will be large. Given what happened in Spain, perhaps we should wait until a government is formed. Andrew🐉(talk) 00:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
• support once full results is ready Shadow4dark (talk) 00:58, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support once the electoral authority releases full results This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 01:29, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support once results are there (also for some reason the reply button is broken?) ChaotıċEnby(talk) 02:30, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  Changing my vote to not ready, not enough prose and some sections like "Results" aren't really well-organized at all. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 10:53, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Quality issues Like some other recent elections, the last half of the article are nearly bare tables and charts. There needs to be more prose. And Andrew's point of how this gets resolved, in that they need a collalition with 75 seats (as I see it), will not happen overnight, but perhaps I'm not clear on this system. --Masem (t) 02:39, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  I don't think they'll get their coalition anytime soon, and it's not even a given that they'll manage to make one. If it takes too long, from what I understand of ITN/R, the nomination of a Prime Minister (either Wilders or the leader of a potential grand coalition) should be made into a separate blurb. Otherwise, if it's done in the next few days, we could update the blurb to include it. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 03:02, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  Last time, it took them 299 days to figure out a coalition. And it seems quite possible that the largest party will not be part of it this time. That's what happened in Spain and so our initial announcement of a winner was misleading. In such systems, it seems better to wait until the new coalition and leader is established. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:05, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  Yep, that's why we should be careful of only mentioning they received the most votes/seats rather than implying a "win" or definitive leadership of some sort. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 11:34, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support Election results are ITNR. The article looks decent, and also the aftermath section is informative and explains a lot about possible coalitions. Post now, and if a government without PPV is eventually formed later, post that as well, as we did with Spain recently. --Tone 09:13, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support ITNR, and who knows how long the parties will take to sort out the coalition government. Per above, we can always post an update or new blurb if something significant changes. Kcmastrpc (talk) 11:42, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support per ITNR. Article quality is adequate. I am not unsympathetic to the point about likely delays in forming a government. But the election results are what we routinely blurb. And irrespective of the likelihood of Mr. Wilders or his party being a part of the next cabinet, they did quite well and the results of this election have been front page news globally. If it's newsworthy in its own right, we can blurb the next government separately once formed. But for now, the election results are the story. Let's get this up. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:56, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  The article quality is not ready, the bottom half is mostly tables without prose. This needs to be fixed before posting. Masem (t) 18:45, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  While I supported earlier on, the article could indeed benefit of some more text in the said lines. If anyone wants to give it a go, some suggestions:

  • Parties: not much to be added here, relevant things are in the Background already
  • Debates: again, nothing essential missing
  • Opinion polls: a couple of sentences explaining in words what the graph says
  • Results: some summary as well, such as Party A won more than last time, Party B lost many seats, Party C is new to the Parliament etc. Then, the Aftermath is good.

  Tone 22:10, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

• Not ready a lot of tables, not so much prose. In the section on political parties I would almost prefer prose, prose that should also be in the results section whose table on results by provinces is empty. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:29, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support the blurb after the official announcement. 3000MAX (talk) 07:14, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Not ready. As stated by @Alsoriano97 and @Masem, there's too many tables and little prose. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 09:40, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality Virtually no prose on the campaign/election itself, it's almost all tables in between background and aftermath. The Kip 19:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Wait The article has some serious issues:

1. The map and the proposed alternative do not suit the Dutch system of counting votes at a national level. The map gives the false impression that the PVV gained a large majority by winning so many electoral districts and could govern the country alone. 37 of 150 seats is far below a majority. The PVV needs to find at least 2 coalition partners.
2. The graph shows a weighted average, which fails to show the sudden changes at the end of the campaign.
3. The sections campaign and opinion polls fail to describe what happened. What caused the dive of BBB and NSC in the polls? What happened in the final weeks of the campaign before the sudden rise of PVV?

Uwappa (talk) 09:20, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

1- The precedent for Dutch politics has always been the electoral district map. There is just no other way to display it clearly.

3- I have added a paragraph to the aftermath explaining this. Haris920 (talk) 21:42, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support national elections are ITN/R. JM (talk) 00:41, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support, though someone being able to get that first graph in "Results" centered a bit better would be great. DarkSide830 (talk) 17:38, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support Looks ready. Thriley (talk) 17:41, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support This is very important news, massive political upset. Article looks good enough.Civciv5 (talk) 02:24, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) Return of the Altman

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article: Removal of Sam Altman from OpenAI (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Sam Altman returns as CEO of OpenAI after an internal crisis (Post)
News source(s): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67494165
Credits:

• Nominated by PrecariousWorlds (talk · give credit)

All over the news, attracting huge reader interest, article looks pretty good. It's a unique, interesting news story that would greatly diversify what we post and be actually useful to the general reader. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:02, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Needs work It's certainly in the news still but the latest developments are not yet reflected in the article. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:08, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - notability. I'm not exactly sure if CEOs being reinstated is ITN worthy. Also, everyone on the face of the earth is voting to merge the article. Iamstillqw3rty (talk) 12:36, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose it is not ITN-worty his cessation, nor his return. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose This is the type of news that gets magnified in the short term, but in the long term may be just a paragraph in the history of the company from an encyclopedic perspective. This whole situation is exemplary of how bad we are failing summarizing news events as per NOT#NEWS, and instead trying to document every tiny detail, and why stories like day-to-day business and politics are not good ITNC candidates. --Masem (t) 13:10, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Israel-Hamas ceasefire and prisoner exchange

Article: 2023 Israel–Hamas ceasefire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A four-day ceasefire and prisoner exchange is agreed between Israel and Hamas. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by Moazfargal (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Yes. I know it's covered by ongoing, but it's a significant development in the war. Moazfargal (talk) 10:21, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Conditional oppose - I think this should be blurbed on notability grounds, but as of now the link directs you to a minor paragraph. There needs to be a lot of expansion on the article in order to post this. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 11:55, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

@PrecariousWorlds: I have expanded the section since. According to Wikipedia:ITNCRIT, I think the update is enough. Moazfargal (talk) 14:16, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Changing my vote to Support PrecariousWorlds (talk) 15:53, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose on grounds of ongoing entry – robertsky (talk) 12:03, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Ongoing The deal has been structured in stages so there may be batches of hostages released and further extensions of the ceasefire. So, this seems likely to be another progressive/ongoing situation. Ongoing seems best for such an uncertain development. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:06, 22 November 2023 (UTC) (edit conflict)

  We don’t even have a separate article for this. An ongoing would be way too much for this minor paragraph. Aaron Liu (talk) 13:50, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  Separate articles for this include 2023 Israel–Hamas ceasefire and 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis. The current ongoing entry could be supplemented as suggested by Chaotic Enby recently. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:38, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  The ceasefire article is absolutely unnecessary at this point, given this is only a 4 day ceaseation. Masem (t) 14:44, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  Thanks! I think this is the best compromise between having a blurb for each new development, and not mentioning them at all. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 16:22, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Conditional Oppose The ceasefire will only last for 4 days. Most blurbs that are posted last longer than that period of time, so posting this after the ceasefire ends will make the blurb look obsolete. I am a little more considerate in an alternate blurb suggesting that “50-ish hostages were released as part of the ceasefire” though. 24.166.251.29 (talk) 12:39, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  I got no issues with such altblurb, but it would have to mention that 150 Palestinians would also be set free. Moazfargal (talk) 13:46, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality (minimal update per PrecariousWorlds), but weak support. Its only a short term ceasefire, but it is the first major agreement between the two sides here. However, also agree that ongoing should cover this. --Masem (t) 13:12, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  @Masem: I have expanded the section since. According to Wikipedia:ITNCRIT, I think the update is enough. Moazfargal (talk) 14:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support blurb: Probably enough of an update, definitely notable enough beyond ongoing as it will stop for a while for the first time in this iteration Aaron Liu (talk) 14:33, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support blurb on notability, weak oppose on quality This is a large development in the war, but as I'm not all too familiar with ITN, I don't know if a tiny subsection of an article would suffice. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 16:12, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  Per Wikipedia:ITNCRIT, a five-sentence update with three references to an already existing article is more than enough. Moazfargal (talk) 17:29, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose given the short duration and unknowns surrounding lasting impact, this would likely be best covered in ongoing unless something of lasting significance happens. Kcmastrpc (talk) 16:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Covered by Ongoing, plus the ceasefire will last only a short while. Editor 5426387 (talk) 17:07, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Supplement ongoing as mentioned by Andrew above as a good compromise between full blurbing and nothing. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 17:07, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose - ongoing, when something more permanent happens then another blurb makes sense. But a four day pause for a limited exchange isnt that. nableezy - 17:28, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Ongoing is >>>> that way. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:50, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose on the basis of low article quality. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 09:53, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose unless it extends longer-term, otherwise it's sufficiently covered by ongoing. The Kip 19:47, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

November 21

Portal:Current events/2023 November 21

November 21, 2023 (2023-11-21) (Tuesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War The United Nations Human Rights Office says that more than 10,000 civilians have been killed in Ukraine since the Russian invasion in February 2022, though it expects the actual death toll to be "significantly higher". (Reuters) 2023 Israel–Hamas war 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes Four Hamas members are killed by Israeli shelling in Tayr Harfa, Lebanon; the pro-Hezbollah Al Mayadeen television station says that two of its journalists and a civilian were also killed, shortly after the Israel Defense Forces said it struck several Hezbollah anti-tank missile squads in southern Lebanon and other sites in response to missile fire toward Metula in northern Israel. (The Times of Israel) Kivu conflict Congolese Foreign Minister Christophe Lutundula announces that the DRC has signed agreements for the complete withdrawal of the MONUSCO United Nations peacekeeping force. The UN has around 15,000 peacekeepers stationed in the Central African country. (AP) Myanmar civil war Operation 1027 The Arakan Army assaults Pauktaw, Rakhine State, for a second time. The town has switched hands twice between the rebel group and the military. (The Irrawaddy) War in Sudan Darfur campaign The Rapid Support Forces seize the Sudanese Armed Forces 20th Infantry Division headquarters in Ed Daein, East Darfur, effectively capturing the city. (Sudan Tribune) At least 40 civilians are killed and more than 50 others are injured when Sudanese army warplanes bomb the vicinity of the 20th Infantry Division in East Darfur. (Sudan Tribune) Business and economy Cryptocurrency company Binance founder and CEO Changpeng Zhao pleads guilty to money laundering in the United States. The company will pay $4.3 billion in fines and Zhao will step down as CEO. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents 2023 Brazzaville crowd crush Thirty-seven people are killed and several others are injured in a stampede during a military recruitment event at a stadium in Brazzaville, Republic of the Congo. (AFP via Barron's) Twenty-five people are killed when a truck carrying over 200 people and food items crashes in Magama district, Nigeria. (AP) The bodies of four missing teenagers are found in an overturned car near Tremadog, Gwynedd, Wales, United Kingdom. (BBC News) Law and crime Three people are killed and another is critically injured in a shooting over a property dispute in Custer County, Colorado, United States. (ABC News) Science and technology North Korea claims to have successfully launched its first spy satellite, Malligyong-1. (AP) (Reuters)

---

RD: Tertius Delport

Article: Tertius Delport (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.news24.com/news24/community-newspaper/pe-express/da-founding-member-dr-tertius-delport-dies-at-age-84-20231123
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Lefcentreright (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former cabinet minister and CODESA negotiator.  Lefcentreright  Discuss  18:27, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: Jerónimo Saavedra

Article: Jerónimo Saavedra (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Mundo
Credits:

• Nominated by Alsoriano97 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Spanish politician and academic. First President of the Canary Islands after the establishment of the autonomous communities system and pioneer LGTBI politician. I've expanded the article, added more sources and the basics are there. I keep adding content with RS sources. _-_Alsor (talk) 12:58, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: S. S. Badrinath

Article: S. S. Badrinath (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Founder of Sankara Nethralaya.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:37, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

First North Korean satellite launch

Article: Malligyong-1 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ North Korea launches the spy satellite Malligyong-1 into orbit. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ North Korea claims to have launched its first spy satellite, Malligyong-1, prompting tensions with South Korea.
Alternative blurb II: ​ North Korea launches the spy satellite Malligyong-1, leading to the termination of a 2018 agreement with South Korea.
News source(s): AP News BBC Le Monde
Credits:

• Nominated by Chaotic Enby (talk · give credit)
• Created by Mitch199811 (talk · give credit)

ITN/R as a country's first successful orbital launch (by WP:ITN/R#Space exploration) (erratum: apparently only the first spy satellite, not the first satellite), work still needed to update the article for the last launch, which was (claimed to be) successful unlike the previous two. Open to rewording the blurb. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 00:45, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose because no immediate independent observations could be made according to the article. Even the AP article you linked as the source says it's only an NK claim. It could instead be worded as claims to have sent but then why blurb a claim? Surely claims are not ITN/R. It should be seen if the claim is verified before deciding whether or not to post it. JM (talk) 05:50, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  South Korea confirmed the claim of it reaching orbit per BBC ChaotıċEnby(talk) 02:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  Support now that it's been confirmed. JM (talk) 20:04, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose for now per above. No independent confirmation of success. The Kip 05:56, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
• Needs work The details are emerging and the article is still being updated. There seem to be diplomatic consequences as South Korea is suspending a pact and taking other steps. And people like the UN and US are reacting too. So, as it's not just a space event, we need to digest all this and review the article in a day or two. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:26, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  Good point. Speaking of this, should the blurb mention it to be a spy satellite? It's really a question of which angle we want to showcase (the space achievement, or the geopolitical event) and both could be claimed to be more neutral/relevant. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 20:07, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose for now per above. 24.166.251.29 (talk) 12:36, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support - If it's "just" an NK claim, it sure is odd that governments are all responding as though this were a real event, as well as the article stating that yes, the launch indeed happened successfully. As first space launches for any country are ITN/R, we need to go ahead and treat this as such. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 14:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  The blurb would need to reflect that this is what NK has claimed, until we have better verification it happened. same with the article. Masem (t) 20:09, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  Added an altblurb. Also, the BBC article linked by Andrew above mentions South Korea confirming the satellite had entered orbit. ChaotıċEnby(talk) 20:13, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  Okay, we can claim the launch is true (SK is not a country to doubt) but we don't know if it made it there with full function, that still is a claim by NK, so it is hard to call it a success. Note I'm not saying not to post this, but the wording should be careful to overstate what we don't know or can't confirm. NK itself must be presumed unreliable for any claims. Masem (t) 20:24, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  Very good point indeed - I'm open to any proposed change in the blurbs, feel free to suggest a better way to put it! ChaotıċEnby(talk) 20:37, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support per WaltCip. Governments are treating it as though it really happened. Moazfargal (talk) 14:21, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Wait until confirmation of success by external sources. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 09:56, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  The fact that the satellite reached orbit has been confirmed by South Korea, where the doubt remains is as to whether or not it is functional as a (spy) satellite. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 17:29, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

• Comment, it isn't the first NK satellite launch, see Kwangmyŏngsŏng-3 Unit 2. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.221.252.101 (talk) 17:32, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  Well, guess I can remove the ITN/R part then. Oopsie, thanks! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 23:07, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support seems obvious enough, especially given follow-up news articles (such as the US accusing Russia of sending technology to NK). Banedon (talk) 07:51, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. As noted already, not the first satellite and seemingly a minor diplomatic incident. Plus, if everyone knows you launched a "spy" satellite, then how effective is it? DarkSide830 (talk) 03:51, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  Spy satellites don't have to be secret to capture intelligence JM (talk) 03:56, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  And as long as you have a peaceful justification for the satellite, any effort by a hostile entity to destroy or incapacitate it would likely be considered a casus belli (although admittedly I'm no expert on space law), meaning that while diplomats fret over its implications, the satellite can yet continue its merry orbit around the Earth picking up data and sending it back to Pyongyang or wherever. So yes, I can imagine this creating a variety of problems. Unfortunately, the significance and impact is hard to ascertain. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 14:48, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

  It led to the termination of an agreement with South Korea, and other countries have also intervened, so not sure about how minor it is. ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 13:19, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

November 20

Portal:Current events/2023 November 20

November 20, 2023 (2023-11-20) (Monday) Armed conflicts and attacks Mexican drug war A shootout between police and armed civilians in Cuernavaca, Morelos, kills nine people, including two police officers. (AP) Myanmar civil war Operation 1107 Artillery fired by the military destroys a monastery in Loikaw, Kayah State, killing two monks. (The Irrawaddy) War in Sudan Battle of Khartoum The Rapid Support Forces announce that it has captured the Jebel Aulia Dam. (Sudan Tribune) Darfur campaign The Rapid Support Forces launch an assault on Ed Daein, the capital of East Darfur, capturing the city's airport, as the group attempts to seize the headquarters of the Sudanese Armed Forces 20th Infantry Division. (Sudan Tribune) Disasters and accidents 2023 Turkey floods Nine people are killed and eleven more are missing after floods across Turkey. (AP) Ten people are killed by a gold mine collapse in Suriname. (AP) An avalanche kills three people and leaves several others missing in Wrangell, Alaska, United States. (AP) International relations Diplomatic impact of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war Israel–South Africa relations Israel recalls its ambassador from South Africa after Minister in the Presidency Khumbudzo Ntshavheni called on the International Criminal Court to issue an arrest warrant against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. (AFP via Barron's) Politics and elections UK Covid-19 Inquiry British government response to the COVID-19 pandemic Chief Scientific Adviser to the British government during the COVID-19 pandemic, Patrick Vallance, says that Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, then finance minister, said "just let people die" during a discussion on a potential second lockdown in late 2020. (Reuters)

---

(Posted) RD: Eddie Linden

Article: Eddie Linden (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by Ollieisanerd (talk · give credit)
• Created by TrottieTrue (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Lyddonian (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Scottish poet and magazine editor. Page looks alright for RD. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 16:24, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article has had over 10,000 views. His death has also been covered by The Irish Times. The article has been updated.—TrottieTrue (talk) 18:22, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  Coverage and significance is irrelevant to RD. Anyone with a blue link and a verified death can be covered if their article is good enough. JM (talk) 20:03, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support Death covered by national newspapers in UK and Ireland. Denham331 (talk) 19:38, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:11, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you. TrottieTrue (talk) 00:13, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Annabel Giles

Article: Annabel Giles (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, BBC News
Credits:

• Nominated by Fats40boy11 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

British television and radio presenter, actress, model and novelist. Fats40boy11 (talk) 20:07, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support, article is large enough and everything looks referenced. Suonii180 (talk) 20:24, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:08, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: Nina Katerli

Article: Nina Katerli (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Radio Free Europe
Credits:

• Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Thriley (talk) 18:55, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose, the majority of the article is unsourced. Suonii180 (talk) 20:28, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
• Five days later, the majority of this article has remained unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 17:16, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Willie Hernández

Article: Willie Hernández (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [5]
Credits:

• Nominated by Muboshgu (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 17:18, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support The name rang a bell so I took a look at the article to see more. I found that the subject was a successful baseball pitcher in his day and the article looks quite good. It appeared at DYK last year after being 5x expanded by Cbl62 who must have done quite a lot of work on it. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:56, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support article looks great. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
• Posted—Bagumba (talk) 18:25, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: John E. Walsh

Article: John E. Walsh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Boston Globe, Axios
Credits:

• Nominated by Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Hirolovesswords (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American political advisor. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 05:50, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

• Comment: Career section is mostly a list of campaigns/politicians he worked with; is there any more detail that can be added for depth? Spencer^T•C 06:12, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: Sara Tavares

Article: Sara Tavares (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [6]
Credits:

• Nominated by User:205.239.40.3 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Portuguese singer, composer, guitarist and percussionist. Needs a bit of work. 205.239.40.3 (talk) 11:50, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• The Artistry and Discography sections are largely unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 17:01, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: Joss Ackland

Article: Joss Ackland (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by SchroCat (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Needs the sourcing issues sorting first, particularly in the filmography section. SchroCat (talk) 07:17, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Double off-topic. Curbon7 (talk) 21:50, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
WP:NOTFORUM Someone needs to take Andrew Davidson to WP:ANI at some point. BangJan1999 18:33, 20 November 2023 (UTC) The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. He’s a going out with the tide Another great British character actor that, like Michael Gambon and David McCallum, joins the roll of honour of being too productive and successful for ITN. The BBC explains, "He appeared in dozens of films throughout the 1980s and 1990s, including The Mighty Ducks and Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey. In a 2001 interview with the BBC he said he appeared in some "awful films" because he was a workaholic." I start reading his article regardless and it reminds me that he appeared in David Copperfield (1966 TV serial), which I remember. Bill Fraser as Mr Micawber and Colin Jeavons as Uriah Heep really stick in the mind but I don't recall Ian McKellen as David himself – he must have been too young to be so famous then. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:21, 20 November 2023 (UTC) what are you talking about...? WP:NOTFORUM JM (talk) 12:15, 20 November 2023 (UTC) Long justification for a blurb? Gotitbro (talk) 13:02, 20 November 2023 (UTC) It’s Andrew being himself, regrettably. The Kip 16:41, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• Not yet ready Prose looks good, but the filmography is nearly entiely uncited. Curbon7 (talk) 21:52, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

  Would a link to his BFI entry cover everything? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:25, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

RD: Aman Tuleyev

Article: Aman Tuleyev (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Kazinform
Credits:

• Nominated by Андрій ЯЧ (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Governon of Kemerovo oblast, candidate in the 1991, 1996 and 2000 Russian presidential election. Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 07:43, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose entire sections wholly unsourced, including information on personal life and career.Polyamorph (talk) 20:13, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
• Multiple paragraphs on his Soviet career and his personal life have remained unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 17:20, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

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